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D. C.-Sudharman :-Just as, it is by virtue of their svabhāva that objects like ghata etc. are produced as a natural result of their respective karanas but without the help of karman, the bhavāntara is also produced by virtue of its own svabhāva even in absence of Karman.
Bhagavan-Karyas like ghata, o Sudharman ! could never be produced merely by virtue of their svabhāva, but they have to depend upon karta and kārana also. So, in the production of Sarara also, kartū and karana are of primary importance. This leads us to believe that in the production of bhavantara, ātman which is different from body, is the kartā, and Karman, the karana, just as potter is the kartā and chakra etc. act as kāraņas, when ghata is produced.
Sudharman :-Since küryas like ghata are directly apprehensible, potter and chakra, etc. may respectively be taken as their kartu aud karaņas. But kāryas like s'arîra in bhavāntara are produced naturally like the multi-coloured changes in clouds etc. It is not, therefore, possible to seek Kurman as a kāraṇa, in the production of bhavāntara.
Bhagavān :--Your argument is totally unfounded. Karyas like s'arira etc. are not svābhāvika because they have a beginning, as well as, a definite ākāra like ghata. You have taken the other life to be the same as this, because, according to you, Karya is exactly similar to karana. But this principle of sadris'atā is not applicable in case of abhrādivikāras, as they are peculiarly different from the objects having definite akära.
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