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If he is going to turn around, he will do so by being close to the Gnani. There, he can turn around if he remains strong through unity of his mind, body and speech and speaks with a pure chit; then something can be done and he can turn around. But intense greed will not allow the chit to become pure (shuddha). His decision cannot remain firm. Intense greed (lalacha) will break that determination.
Questioner: But does he not feel on occasion, that he wants to get out of that trap?
Dadashri: Of course, that may be there, but intense greed is such that it has to go first, then he can get out.
Questioner: Will it not come to an end if he remains in the Gnani Purush's Agnas?
Dadashri: It will come to an end if he gets rid of his intense greed (lalacha). If he makes an effort and determination that he absolutely wants to remain in the Gnani's Agnas and does pratikraman when he cannot, then he will make progress. Then he must become 'regular'; be without conflict with everyone at home. If he abides by the Agna in order to deal with equanimity with all his files, then he will become 'regular' will he not? Then he should continue to observe the 'real-relative'; he will have to abide by the Agnas.
Even then 'we' have to ask him whether he has 'seen' everything according to the Agnas. This would not be the outcome if he had, would it? The result of 'seeing' through Agna would be instant. This is all done through the intellect (buddhi). which does not help at all. All the talks here in this regard are also through the intellect.
Questioner: So does he adjust to all the Agnas through the intellect (buddhi)?
Dadashri: Yes, through the intellect; not through Gnan. Questioner: So what kinds of result will that produce?
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Dadashri: Nothing at all. The intellect actually destroys everything. The intellect is temporary and therefore whatever happens through the intellect is also temporary.
Questioner: No, but how is it with Gnan? What is the difference between practicing the Agna through the intellect or through the Gnan?
Dadashri: Agna practiced through Gnan will give results everywhere whereas application of Agna through the intellect will not produce any results.
Questioner: What lies where there is such result? Dadashri: Everything will be settled when it is done with equanimity.
Questioner: So the results become evident?
Dadashri: It definitely will. He will pass. However nothing has ever been settled, if you really look. Not even for a day or an hour for that matter.
Questioner: So the belief, 'I am abiding by the Agnas. I have attained everything' was all wrong?
Dadashri: It is all wrong, what else? It is all a play of the intellect (buddhi). Anything he says to anyone, whenever he talks to others, it is all through his intellect. It does not have any effect but the other person will think, 'what a great man'. 'We' have to tell the other person that truly there is nothing there.
Otherwise, you can easily see the results; you will experience the 'fragrance'.
Questioner: So does that mean that one is practicing the Agnas through the intellect if it does not produce visible results? I am asking this question for other mahatmas.
Dadashri: No, not for others, it does not affect other mahatmas. I am talking about those who have intense greed
