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Aptavani-9
495
Dadashri: There is some awareness in the situation with the bed but awareness of the Self is gone away substantially, is it not? The separation of the body from the bed is in his awareness (khyal).
Questioner: That happens when I make him take a note of the separation, then the one within will agree 'Yes, both are separate.'
Dadashri: He will believe when you give him the proof (purava).
Questioner: So in the same token do we need to give proof in order to understand and maintain the exact awareness, All the non-Self complex phases are not mine and I am Shuddhatma'?
Dadashri: Proof, evidence (purava) is the main thing.
Questioner: What is the proof or evidences that help to understand this from within?
Dadashri: That which takes numerous evidences to get the work done is 'not mine'. Even when only three things get together in order to get the work done; it is 'not mine'. Even if you do not cut a mango with a knife but bite into it with your teeth, because everything had to come together in order for the eating to take place, means it is 'not mine. You will have to understand at the subtle level, will you not? Do you think you can make do with understanding at the gross level?
Questioner: The main thing is at the subtlest (sookshmatam) level.
Dadashri: Yes, the main thing is subtlest (at the level of sookshmatam) and what will happen if you dissect it at the gross level (at the sthool level)?
Questioner: But this is something new that you just told
us.
496
Aptavani-9
Dadashri: No it is not new, it has always been there from the beginning. This knowledge was with the tirthankaras and it is here today too. What can I do when according to your 'law book' you claim it as new?
'I-ness' melts away with real experience
One person thought he had become absolute. I told him, 'You have become nothing, do not grope around. There are a lot of things you still have to become, you have a long way to go and it is not easy to become Absolute.' So he tells me, 'But the ego is gone. I said to him, 'It has not gone. It is all there. You have not checked into it.'
But it goes away gradually. As one suffers in the experiences of worldly interaction and makes internal adjustments through Gnan, then the real experience (anubhav) arises within, and when such experiences increase, the 'I-ness' (potapanu) leaves to that extent. To say that the ego is gone means the 'Iness' is gone. The end of ego means the end of 'I-ness'. One will have to go through a lot of experiences before even a fraction of the T-ness' goes. (There is a lot of difference between worldly experiences and the real experience within that ultimately makes one the absolute Self).
The main ego, the charge ego, is gone. That is precisely what is called the ego-ahamkar. But it is not at all easy to get rid of the discharge ego. What does it mean to claim that the ego has gone away? It means that there is no garva (doer-ship), no garavata (wallowing and remaining stuck in worldly comforts) and no potapanu (T-ness"). Should all that not go? The ego is gone for sure after Gnan; the charge ego is gone, so what kind of ego remains? The discharge ego! The discharge ego will dissipate in proportion to the experience (resulting from the application of Gnan) and then the I-ness' will gradually decrease. Otherwise, it will not do so, not on its own. This is not an easy thing to accomplish. One may ask, 'Can it not be
