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Aptavani-8
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him. If not, then you will not attain the Atma. Where there is Atma, there is no intellect (buddhi), and where there is intellect there cannot be Atma!
Questioner: Are you saying, that by studying the Jain religion, one can attain Knowledge of the Self (Atmagnan)?
Dadashri: No. And even from reading the four Vedas of Vedanta (Ancient Hindu scripture), it is not possible to attain the Atmagnan. When all the four Vedas come to an end, they themselves say, 'this is not That'. The Atma you are looking for is not found in these. Therefore, "Go to the Gnani". You cannot put the Atma down in books. The Atma is indescribable (avarnaniya), it is inexpressible (avaktavya), and therefore it cannot be placed in books. Therefore it is the Gnani Purush's work. Only he, who has attained the Atma, can show us the Atma. It is not the work for anyone else in the world.
Questioner: They may not be able to show us, but can they not help us study that?
Dadashri: They only give you a direction; they point things out to you. So you can get some sort of rough idea about it. But they do not give you the experience of the real thing.
Questioner: But you can experience your own Atma by yourself, can you not?
Dadashri: No, it is not like that. Without the Gnani Purush, you cannot get the experience; it has not happened to anyone. Only he that is free can, free others. If one is oneself, caught up in all these entanglements, how is he supposed to free others? That is why you need a savior (tarantaaran purush). He has himself gone across (the ocean of life), and he is able to do the same for everyone, and that is where your solution lies.
Questioner: So can you attain Atmagnan through the study of shruta vani (knowledge from hearing the speech of enlightened beings)?
