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Bon Dzogchen
T.W.: Many, many years.
L.M.: What are the different benefits of lay and monastic discipleship in Bon? Some people might think: well, I will only reach enlightenment or liberation if I leave the world completely and become a monk or nun. That kind of thinking has been encouraged in Christian—and perhaps, Buddhist — monasticism for over a thousand years.
T.W.: Well, from the point of view of a monastery, of monks, there is a very strong Bon tradition of monastery disciplines. Maybe their point of view will be very much like that. But that is not necessarily true. You are a monk: you have to eat, right?
L.M.: Indeed, we all have to.
T.W.: You have to sleep, and wear warm clothes when it is cold; or take off your warm clothes when it is hot. You are dependent on the raw elements— as lay people are dependent on them. But mainly, the principle of monkhood is that somehow you are trying to arrange and control the disturbances of the mind, which you are trying to avoid—such as not killing; not having male and female relationships, and sexual intercourse. We know that even in the lay community, relationships are one of the hardest things to deal with.
L.M.: Especially, these days.
T.W.: Today, especially; so it make sense for monks to think: Oh, that is one of the hardest things—better not to deal with that right from the beginning. But on the other hand, not everybody's decision is made like that. Perhaps you are not able to be a monk; it is not your way. Because you can flow with energy better than you can control energy. Then, monkhood is not necessarily for you. With the lay community, I think that basically, let us say, the opportunity to practice toward enlightenment is equally available for the lay community and for the monastery, the community of monks.
L.M.: You are trying to do that here with the Ligmincha Institute.
T.W.: That is my hope. You know, we don't have a monastery here. And I don't want a monastery here either. Our center is here to provide, for people
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