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Christian Sannyasa
W.T.: Yes, I said that "Our frail Pope seems to have forgotten the courage of Jesus and Gandhiji." A little courage on his part would spark a transformation of the consciousness of the planet.
L.M.: John Paul II has shown enormous courage with the Solidarity movement in Poland-and the church's role in the end of Communism in central Europe.
W.T.: He played a major role in its unraveling. The thing is, they have to see-and what they don't yet understand—is that Tibet is a test. It is a test which God is giving us. I don't speak metaphorically here: Tibet is a testconceived by God-for the sake of the whole world. By showing up for the challenge of Tibet, we humans will expand our capacities, our consciousness. If we flunk this test, we may not be worthy to continue as a species.
L.M.: We flunked it with Hitler, as you say.
W.T.: Yes, we flunked it with Hitler. We cannot afford to flunk it this time. We must use any means we can that are moral, nonviolent. And it may take some time to get this off the ground.
L.M.: Would the Dalai Lama support the fast if we had say seventy percent?
W.T.: A seventy percent chance of success, yes. The ultimate success will be the change of the Vatican policy-and for the Vatican to emerge-the Pope to emerge as a leader in this moral struggle. It would succeed; the Chinese will back down. They may conceive it cynically: that we'll give the Tibetans what they want for a while, but we'll still hold onto Tibet.
L.M.: It will then just be a show.
W.T.: But eventually, the Chinese will themselves be transformed in the process.
L.M.: So, Washington and American business interests don't have to fear the loss of trade with China. Clearly, a moral dimension is required, even though the world of trade and business doesn't go away.
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