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WAYNE TEASDALE
W.T.: Yes, reincarnation and purgatory are doing the same work of further education, and refinement, and transformation of the individual. They are leading us to that point where we have the generosity to let go of ourselves. If we die in a state of attachment to these things that are impermanent, then we are not ready for God. In order to have perfect love we must be infinitely, totally free. If we have these attachments, we're not free. We have a divided heart. We are not able to say yes to God at that point. We have to let go of everything else. It can't be done violently. Though some of the saints have done that.
L.M.: Francis tortured Brother Ass, his body.
W.T.: It has to be a gradual transformation for most of us. Still there are these radical moments in our spiritual geography, these monuments of transformation. Saint Francis throwing himself upon the snow, naked—his embrace of the leper and kissing him on the lips. That is a moment of transformation.
L.M.: Has there been such a moment in your life?
W.T.: I've often wondered if I had any compassion; not recently, but in the past. I wondered if I was really capable of compassion and love. I wasn't sure if I was really deluding myself.
L.M.: You were meditating, you were living the sannyasic life. Were you feeling a sense of hollowness?
W.T.: I wouldn't say hollowness. I wasn't really sure of whether I was a loving person, a compassionate person. But I have found that whenever I was confronted with vulnerability in another, my reaching out to them began to show me that I was. I remember seeing once at a lake, a child throw a stone at these two swans, and hit one of them. He didn't kill the swan, but it was injured. And I saw the tremendous distress of its mate.
L.M.: The swan's mate.
W.T.: I felt this incredible sorrow for that being and wanting to lessen its pain and suffering. This happens to me frequently. And I've reached a point
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