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**Sahavy-Pancastimapan -** In this way, there is the notion of the self as the creator in the pudgala, this is mainly stated in three gathas.
**Time Explanation Gatha 67**
It is said here that even though there is the single agency of the jiva and karma, in practice, the jiva does not contradict the experience of the fruits given by karma.
**Jivas are bound to pudgala-bodies by mutual deep grasping and attachment.** When they are separated in time, they give and experience happiness and sorrow.
**Jivas, due to their attachment to moha, raga, and dvesha, and pudgala-skandhas due to their inherent nature of being sticky, remain bound in the state of bondage, like a pair of atoms, by mutual deep grasping and attachment.** When they are separated from each other, then, due to the arising and passing away of the pudgala-body, they give happiness and sorrow as a result of their inherent nature, and in practice, they are merely the cause of the desired and undesired objects. The jivas, in practice, experience the fruits of the desired and undesired objects, which are obtained by the arising of the pudgala-karma, which are merely the cause of the happiness and sorrow that are the result of their inherent nature. Thus, the quality of the jiva as the experiencer is also explained.
**Hindi Time Explanation Gatha 67**
**Anvayaartha:** [Jivas are pudgala-bodies] The jiva and the pudgala-body [are mutually bound by deep grasping and attachment] [in a specific way] by mutual deep grasping, [mutually] bound, (when they are separated in time) when separated by time (they give and experience happiness and sorrow) they give and experience happiness and sorrow [i.e., the pudgala-body gives happiness and sorrow, and the jiva experiences it].
**Commentary:** It is said here that even though there is the single agency of the jiva and karma (only their own nature), in practice, the jiva does not contradict the experience of the fruits given by karma.
The jiva, due to its attachment to moha, raga, and dvesha, and the pudgala-skandha, due to its inherent nature of being sticky, [they] remain bound in the state of bondage, like a pair of atoms, [in a specific way] by mutual deep grasping and attachment. When they are separated from each other, then, due to the arising and passing away of the pudgala-body, they give happiness and sorrow as a result of their inherent nature, and in practice, they are merely the cause of the desired and undesired objects. The jivas, in practice, experience the fruits of the desired and undesired objects, which are obtained by the arising of the pudgala-karma, which are merely the cause of the happiness and sorrow that are the result of their inherent nature. Thus, the quality of the jiva as the experiencer is also explained.